with the lawyers committee for civil rights at 8:15 a.m. eastern. our series on the military considers with major general james holmes looking at the plans for the air force to cut jobs. we will also discuss the air force drone program in afghanistan. w j" is next. -- "washington journal" is next. host: good morning on this tuesday. here is an early update on washington. some additional tax revenue may be allowed as part of the deal with democrats. charles schumer said the so- called super committee will fail because republicans are not willing to compromise on the topic. eric holder will testify on that

fast and furious program before a senate judiciary committee. there will be a hearing and counterfeit parts in military equipment. look for live coverage on c- span.org. the president will announce a new executive order on the headstart competition. we begin here on "washington journal" with the issue of sexual harassment and whether or not we have seen an improvement in addressing this. here are the phone numbers. host: let me begin with some information about sexual harassment and federal law. this is what it says.

ost: that is from the eeoc's website. there was a piece about the legality of the issue.

host: it goes on to say this -- host: con doctor looked like

sexual harassment did not meet the legal definition because it was motivated by a union election rather than by the complaint's gender. host: this gives you an idea about the legal issue surrounding sexual harassment and the law. we want to hear from you this morning and whether this has improved over the year. we have more from "the wall street journal" in the issue of settlement in these cases.

host: they give an example of a case in california where there was $7 million awarded in punitive damages despite only finding $50,000 in actual damages. attorney fees have to be paid, $1.9 million.

host: if you do not go to trial, your legal bill can be can100,000or so -- your legal bill can be $100,000. caller: i believe there is little sexual harassment going on inhekpce past, women used ths a way to "get back to people" and make some money. host: what was going on back in the 1990's? caller: that was the same type of stuff that mr. cain is being accused of.

it is strange that even though in many ways women initiate some things, they ask you a question and give an answer and now it's some kind of sexual harassment because you are aware of what you have to say. when the lawyer for the company asked me -- they say they will and stress is too short, yeah. but if you were to ask me if your address is short and i said yes, how is it the right sexual harass you? host: let me ask you how it was still with your company. caller: not my lawyer, their lawyer. i have already been terminated because most of the time you are guilty until proven innocent, which is what the case is given

in regular court today. when you walk in court, you are guilty and you have to prove your innocence. this is a civil suit, it becomes a preponderant of evidence. even when i depots -- when my lawyer depose some of the women, one of them went out of the room crying because she knew she was lying and she was pressed to say something because she needed her medical benefits. she had a daughter that had many problems. so therefore the company in every case -- it did not happen to mr. cain because he was powerful within the company. host: were you sued by this woman in a civil case? caller: absolutely not. there was no way they could defend me because the women

would have sued them. host: did they sell with these women? caller: what would have to give them any money? the only one who got her out of this was may. host: there was a democrat call from north carolina. next up is from michigan. caller: i agree with that gentleman. all three of the men in my life -- my father at the age of 73, my husband, who got challenged by a transvestite who had not transvestited yet, and my son. all three were accused and all three had to settle. my father was a hairdresser for 35 years on women's hair.

not until he retired did somebody challenged him because he told her she was not doing her job. host: when did these cases occur? caller: my father was in the 1990's. my husband was in the late 1980's. my son was listen -- my son was recently in the past five years. they get away with this because they cannot be challenged by any other facts, other than he said, she said. if they cannot prove it, they have to pay the attorneys' they lose to. why doesn't anyone who was been sexually arrested by chris matthews or john martin or any

of the news reporters call allred and talk to her about it? thank you. caller: on one hand i am concerned about this because there have been similar circumstances. on the other hand, i am also concerned about the way allred is involved because she is a liberal attorney the looks for cases that have lot of high value.l i am reminded of what i think is a great leader. he was oneosevelt' -- of the greatest leaders in our

nation's history. i'm concerned without getting more knowledge of what is going on here, eliminate a guy that might have some great ideas. i'm happy to see it will be the second guy came out of a background -- his family background was slavery. i'm happy about that. host: let me read you from "the washington post" today about the woman who came out with her lawyer, gloria allred.

host: it was described that her behavior cannot be explained away. this is sexual battery. host: she has filed for bankruptcy twice and she has an internal tax revenue tax lien. host: he said she was doing this to be the voice of the other ladies.

host: houston, texas. we are talking about the issue of sexual harassment and if there's been improvement in dealing with it. caller: i think there has been improvement. is being recognized. i see something you read in that article. it is a republican. it probably is not true. the woman yesterday was credible. she was credible. this man has not answered truthfully regarding the other allegations yet. it is four people are wrong? everybody is wrong except him.

that does not make sense. he didn't remember and now suddenly he remembers? she was the height of his wife? host: this is from politico. there was a report last night. a worker claims hurricane passed to set up a dinner. the worker told the paper that the moment came after cain gave a speech, a woman asked cain a question and she said -- this woman said he asked her after the speech was over to ask the woman to dinner with him. you saw herman cain last night talk about the issue with jimmy kimmel. this is what he said about a news conference he plans to hold today in arizona. >> i would listen very

carefully. i said, i know we have to do. there's not an ounce of truth in all these accusations. that is why i am willing to do a press conference tomorrow to set the record straight. host: herman cain last by talking about the news conference today in arizona. he will talk about those accusations from that woman yesterday. next up is a call from indiana. what do you think about sexual harassment? have we made any improvements? caller: this goes to the supreme court, the right to be accused. this guy has been accused. he is not been convicted. he has been accused. there should be a presumption of innocence and the media has blown this up. this will hurt his campaign. host: you think this will hurt

his campaign? caller: absolutely. host: did you think that before? caller: this is good for seeing people's opinion. when you get on a blog that says a guy is accused of domestic violence, he should have his firearm taken away from him. that shows some serious, like, miss understanding of the word "accusation and conviction." host: that was a darren in indiana. we have some numbers about sexual harassment charges over the years.

host: the website also shows some elements in these cases. -- some settlements. we're asking all of you to weigh in on this this morning. have we made an improvement in addressing sexual harassment? this is a tweet from one of our viewers. host: if you want to send us a tweet, go to twitter.com/cspanwj. pat is a republican in new

jersey. caller: i worked in the commodity industry in the early 1970's for a commodity exchange. years ago, women were paid 25% more to be in that industry. things were very tough. but i never had a problem i could not handle. i believe that certain jobs -- if you cannot handle the pressure or the insanity of some jobs, trading in varmints, things like that, then you should work for a library -- trading environments. host: what does that have to do with sexual harassment? caller: these guys do not know what they are saying or half the time what they are doing. i was never in a situation in the years in an industry before

sexual harassment -- before i would have been able to claim sexual harassment in those days that i could not handle. i'm 5 feet tall and tiny. it was like i beat them to the floor. it was just a matter of holding your ground and that was it. you handle the situation. if you could not, you left the job. host: do you think that situation qualifies as sexual harassment? caller: by today's standards, yeah. at least twice a week. host: alright. caller: it was the job i was paid to do. i was paid more than other people to do the job. it was an industry that i know, and i handled it, and i handled

it well. i will tell you something. when you handle these things, the men will respect you. it is not a situation that they will keep coming back to you. host: we will keep talking about this issue. we have some headlines this morning. an ally of silvio berlusconi said he should step aside. here is the ap wire about the situation in iran. dozens of american military commanders are threatened to be killed. several american neo conservatives urge the obama administration to use covert action against iran. that is the a.p. this morning.

we will be talking about the nuclear report coming up in about 20 minutes or so with "the washington times" bill gertz. also this morning, there is a report in "the new york times" -- the senate cleared the way for an amendment on government contractors that would provide tax incentives for companies to hire veterans. host: "the baltimore sun" this

morning talks about the boost for veterans. they say the proposed tax credit would give breaks to businesses that choose veterans when hiring. host: ill but more detail of what president obama is proposing -- a little bit more detail. let's go to tucson, arizona. we're talking about sexual harassment and whether or not we have seen progress over the years. what do you think? caller: i do not think so. things are interpreted different ways in the business community. they are interpreted with a lot of liberal permissiveness, coming from the top down.

i'm a democrat. it has been proven how women are abused in the financial way and we're trying to change it and we have to change it by law but in maxwell but maybe not. it will take time. here is a good comparison. if somebody has a name -- everybody has a name. they like to be addressed with their name. if you are dressed differently -- let us say that this takes away their address as a person. and sick, my name is -- and they say, my name is so-and-so, so please call me that. this has to do with respect.

if a woman is touched in maa pubic area, that is unwarranted. if a woman is touched on the shoulder and she says please do not do that, that is like the thing is saying, "i do not like that." just like the comparison with a name. host: alexander, virginia, jeremy. caller: i think the law has made some progress. these are relatively new. we have gone backwards in terms of how men and women treat each other. the rest in the explosion of the pornography industry on the internet. going back to artificial birth control causes men and women to

stop talking to each other about sex. a wrong understanding or interpretation of sexually. it can lead to problems. the previous woman caller made a good point about women demand respect for people demand respect, but if they let themselves be treated slightly wrong, that can open the door and it gets worse and worse. host: this has been on the books -- title 7 of the 1964 civil- rights act. these laws have been on the books for a while. last month was the 20th anniversary of the anita hill- clarence thomas senate hearings. --ler: i'm not a lot expert. expert. a lot expeaw

i don't have any problems with who owns a particular plot of land because of how long the case lot is on it. 70 years is still pretty young. host: we have a headline from "u.s. a today." host: 11 as the collective

bargaining ability of republican employees including teachers, police, and firefighters. host: 8 proposed amendment in mississippi to show a photo identification at the poll. we'll be talking about that this morning "washington journal," a round table discussion. pittsburgh, pennsylvania. caller: i am not quite sure what sexual harassment is these dateys. kids are thrown at a school for a hunting other kids.

i thought what did it to paula jones -- that was true sexual harassment, if it was true. everything is backwards. people get offended by anything. host: have you given any money to herman cain's campaign? caller: i do not buy it. host: do you plan to vote for him? caller: i will vote for him.

host: atlanta, republican. what do you think of this topic this morning and have we made progress on the issue? caller: greta, i do believe that we made great leaps and bounds progress in this issue. i work in criminal justice in miami for many, many years which is a male dominated field and it really is incumbent upon the woman. i'm not in my way mitigating when it is actual sexual harassment because that does happen in the workforces. it happens in the world. but in the workforce, men in general, you know, a woman has to carry herself in a way that doesn't even hope oh the door in the -- and the opportunity for a

man to violate her in that way. i just answered a query that said should women use their -- this is a terms, erotic currency in the workplace? there is a power that a woman has to let herself be as a swal -- sexual object. this woman is no way. i mean, i am a republican. i liked mr. cain when he first announced but he just kind of really d -- i'm an african-american, and some of the things he said about african-americans really offended me but i hand? defense of him. this has turned into a complete you know, horse and pony show and it makes women who legitimately, greta, are harassed, it makes them now be looked what scrutiny because this is absurd. it's up as women to conduct ourselves in a way for a man to say that's not an option.

host: if these alleged cases were to be proven true by this woman, let's say, that came out yesterday, would that change your opinion about herman cain and whether or not you would vote for him? caller: oh, absolutely, greta. if he's that kind of man, this woman makes, he sounds like he needs be under dial. that's not just being inappropriate or sexual harassing, that is a crime. it's something that did not ring through. she did not have any credibility with me. i'm just reacting based on seeing her first impression of her, but it just doesn't make any sense and it's an opportunistic thing that women sometimes do because they want to get some financial gain or it's a vindication there or some type of -- but i just wish that we would be more sbeg rows as humanings in the workforce. host: herman cain is going to holding a news conference in

arizona to address these allegations made by this woman yesterday. yesterday, the cain campaign did put out a statement denying them and saying that they were bogus attacks. more headlines for you this morning. "u.s.a. today" also has an update on those graphic images that were supposed to be put on cigarette packages. it says that they will be delayed. the ruling indefinitively because of a judge's ruling that will likely prompt more legal wrangling over the issue. that's in "u.s.a. today" this morning. and then also on the keystone pipeline. it says here in "the washington post" that the state department's general said he will conduct a special review of the analysis of candidates x.l. pipeline. --

host: also president obama planning to travel to asia here in "the washington post." it says -- host: if you want to read that, that's a piece in "the washington post." baltimore, maryland, you're next. democratic caller. have we made progress in addressing sexual harassment? caller: i have two points. i'm 35. so i grew up in the age of, you

know, bill clinton and paula jones and monica lewinsky. so i think, i mean, in my lifetime, there have been great advances in addressing sexual harassment. the thing that i don't like about this new accuser of herman cain and i wasn't going vote for him anyway, but i'm very upset by it because i don't believe the young lady. well, i'm calling her young lady nicely but i don't believe her at all, i'm sorry. if this occurred 14 years ago and i agree with the caller from georgia, this is a crime. what she's accusing mr. cain of, it's a felony. it's beyond his, you folks gestures and talking. this is something that you know, he could have been prosecuted for at the time. host: you might know this, but sarah was pon cbs' early morning show today and said that she has nothing to gain by coming forward. asked about cain's characterization of her charges --

dd host: let's go to louisiana. doc a republican. what do you think? >> -- caller: i think some things have gotten better particularly, you know, since bill clinton committed all of his stuff and it brought it out more out to the light. i think this thing is just stoked by the liberal, the democrats, the, you know, the liberal press. if he would be a white fella or a light skinned black, you wouldn't hear anything about it, but they do not want conservative black man, particularly a dark black man,

to do anything. host: ok. massachusetts, sandra, independent. caller: hi. years and years ago, i was vote 60 years close to it when i was working. i went to work as a young woman. i was a very young girl and i went to an oil factory and was going to work and what had initially happen was the man wouldn't let me pass -- tried to make me sit on his lap but he -- other women, they were sitting on his lap and gratified the fact that he get what he wanted more or less and this headed up for all the other women to make it bad and that was wrong. i that day quit the job with my brother who was with me and we both tried to get out of -- he told us we couldn't leave and i had to have my mother come down.

so the man thought he owned us. but the biggest thing is some of the women gave him the impression that it was ok to do. and this is what's going on today too. host: sandra, did you file a complaint then? caller: no, because i was 16 years old, scared out of my wits, didn't know what in the heck i was going to do. it was a job. it was one of my first jobs and it was scary. host: all right. emma, democratic caller in baltimore. what do you think? caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. host: good morning. caller: it is disturbing and what i've been hearing this morning. i am emotionally upset by the calls that ultimately blames the woman. so the question of has society or the world that we live in changed and the attitude changed about women being harassed in the workplace. obviously by the calls even from women, blaming the women, it's

what they wear, it's how they present themselves. they need to be more vocal and be taking a stand. well, i've experienced sexual harassment. i've never reported it because i felt that i removed myself in the situation. however, i don't think blaming the woman is appropriate. and it happens. i was listening to herman cain. i am not a republican. however, i'm not happy with the direction of the government and the way it's going. so i am considering voting opposite of my party this year. host: let me go back to your situation. what stop you from taking the next step to file complaint? caller: i just felt i handled the situation. i express on the gentleman i was not interested and it stopped. however, when people are in that situation, how they handle themselves, how i handled myself may not be how someone else would handle the situation.

i felt that i dealt with the situation and moved on. but he was not my boss. it was someone that i worked with. so it was as if i had to answer to him and he was someone of my superior. and i just feel that the way we're -- to say that this happened without even hearing all the facts, i don't know whether she's telling the truth or not, however, i think she should be given the opportunity to express what she has to express and given herman cain an toppings say oh, no, it didn't happen and i'm not going to respond it. it's just not true. i just feel that dish just don't believe. i think there are -- lies the truth somewhere in the middle. host: i'm going give you there and give you and others from the eeoc about sexual harassment as we told you it must be severe or pervasive and this is how they define that. the exuct of the harasser must

be severe or pervasive to be pervasive -- host: let's go next to alexandria, virginia. sherry, independent. have we made progress in addressing sexual harassment? caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. i think we have. i am a person who was once schwartzed -- sexually harassed in the office in 2001. i happen to be african-american,

tall, and i always have on appropriate attire for work. this person worked in another debt. he was a physician. i was trying to help him do a professional service contract or show him how in my office. i roll in my chair to get a template out. he rolls over there. he pins me against the file cabinet and rubs my thigh. i yelled what are you doing? get out of here. and he flies out of my office and out the stairs. just thinking about it, my heart is pounding in my throat and this is back in 2001. host: did you file a claim, sherry? caller: i thought about it and yes, i did. i called the eeoc office at that institution. i happened to be a contractor at the time and i was only there to be -- i was only to be there for another few months. and the woman spoke to me. i told her my story and she was so nice. i got give them credit because she was like i can tell that you're so upset. this definitely happened to you.

what do you want to do? i said i don't want money. i'm not after this man's life. i'm going to be gone in two months. but i want a report filed. and she told me at that time that others have filed reports on this same physician, mind you. so for those of you who think some of this is fake, i'm sure there are people who make fake claims but even today, my heart pounds when i think about that episode. host: all right. thanks for sharing. money section of "u.s.a. today" has this headline -- host: and then the "wall street journal" this morning as this headline about bill daly and his new role at the white house --

and more on 2012 politics this morning. "wall street journal," nbc news poll out says there's good news for president barack obama or any of his republican leading rivals. the survey has both good news for obama and mitt romney who is solidifying his support -- host: he topped mr. romney just by 2% in october. that's in the "wall street journal" this morning.

poll in the "u.s.a. today" has cain and romney tied for the lead. you can see it there. cain with 21% and romney also with 21%. gingrich bumped up above rick perry with 12%. rick perry following with 11%. it also says in this poll that cain gets tepid grades for response to his allegations. and then in the "financial times" this morning, another paper that says well, mitt romney is stepping up his campaign in iowa. he's rethinking his strategy there as he holds in the polls in that state. deb, a democratic caller. what do you think? have we made improvements on addressing sexual harassment? caller: yes, good morning. host: good morning. caller: i think we have made improvements, but i think we still need to do a lot more and then in the case of mr. cain, i think the -- birth certificate.

i'm wondering if mr. cain would take a polygraph test. because if they would take a polygraph test, it will go a long way for him. he's changed the story so many times about the payment being made and the payment not being made. i think he should have a face-to-face with this lady. host: in about half an hour, we're going to be talking with new voter i.d. laws for the 2012 election. we'll have a roundtable discussion on that. coming up, we'll turn our attention to the latest on iran with bill gerts of the "washington times." we'll be right back.

>> extremism in the defense of liberty is no bias. [cheers and applause] and let me remind you also that moderation and the pursuit of justice is no virtue. [cheers and applause] >> he lost in the 1964 presidential election to lyndon johnson but barry goldwater's ideas and terms galvanized the movement. he is featured this week on "the contenders." live friday at 8:00 p.m. eastern. see more videos of the candidates at espn's website for campaign 2012 from recent events to the earliest part offense their campaigns. read the latest comments from candidates and political reporter, from social media site and links to c-span's media

partner it was the early primary and caucus states, iowa, new hampshire, and south carolina. all at cspan.org/campaign2012. >> so this is the formal part of fill the declaration of candidacy which has been completed. >> yes. >> except for the -- >> all it needs is a signature on that. i can do that. this is the filing feel fee of $1,000. >> you got that >> this is some slogan. you might want to leave -- we do this every four years. >> well, you got a great exactly of state. you've get a great job and you will be for the next 40, 50 years, bill. we appreciate your leadership. we're going to make sure new hampshire remains first in the nation. it's a responsibility and an honor which new hampshire richly deserves and i'm happy to be a

part of that cross and put my name on this paper, hoping that this time, it will take. [laughter] and i'll be able to back nominee of my party and hopefully the next president of the united states. >> the new hampshire prime is set for january 10. click on the candidates and all shareable and free. it's washington your way. >> "washington journal" continuing. host: bill gerts is our guest here. he's the national security editor with the "washington times" here to talk about the u.n. and atomic watchdogs on iran expected to come out this week. what's the latest on this report? guest: well, good to be on the show and thanks, greta. the report will be released wednesday night, vienna time and it will have three main takeaways. it's going to provide more information than it has in the

past. the first is that basically the iranians have conducted a computer modeling for nuclear weapon. they've also been working on construction of an explosive container that's related to nuclear weapons. when you have a nuclear blast, you need high explosives to trigger it. and the last thing is they're working on missile warheads, adapting a nuclear warhead to a missile. and that's kind of the late stage of nuclear development. so this is a fairly alarming development. other details that were reported in may we will discuss. some of it's detonation testing. that is working on the triggers that can actually trigger a nuclear blast. host: how does this differ from past reports by this u.n. atomic watchdog? what did the last report say and how did we get from there to here? guest: the last report was more circumspect. this was in september.

a director general report which talked about unanswered questions about past military-related activities in iran. the ryanans have insisted that their nuclear programs is pure my civilian and that is becoming clear that it's a lie. i would also add that this is a challenge to this very questionable 2007 national intelligence estimate which has been widely criticized even by the intelligence community itself which said that iran halted work on nuclear weapons back in 2003. now it's clear that that was false. you know, i've written extensively about this. this is an intelligence failure of strategic magnitude that really deserves to be investigated by our watchdog agencies in congress. host: how did the report get so it wrong and the iaea have this type of information? guest: first of all, there has

been new information that has come out since 2007 but i think that and i've written about this, the 2007 estimate was clearly an effort of intelligence politicalization. certain elements felt that the bush administration was trigger happy and ready to start another war with iran and these officials and of course i've researched this extensively went out of their way to really get this estimate way wrong. now you'll still see some nuances i think general clapper, the director of natural intelligence said that earlier this year, he had some finesse way of explaining why, what was really nuclear weapons work and what was research. so they're trying to parse it in an effort to try and cover their rear end. host: so if -- when this report comes out on wednesday and it contains the information that you're talking a what is the implication? guest: well, i think the first implication is and there's been

a lot of reports coming out of israel that the israelis are preparing or perhaps getting ready to do some kind of military action. there have been a number of reports that the israeli prime minister has been lining up support for his cabinet. a couple of events before this, the israelis were able to secure the release of their soldier in exchange for a large number of palestinians that was a key milestone for them. and the chief of staff was fired and replaced with someone who is believed to be more attuned to israel taking some type of military action. this could all be a part of strategic fate by israel in order get more international pressure to do something on a diplomatic front against iran which i don't know how much more we could do. we put in sanctions in and it hasn't stopped nuclear program. host: could bit stronger

sanctions? guest: i'm sbhuret that's the direction that the obama administration wants to go and i'm sure that there's been a lot of diplomatic efforts to try and lean on the israelis not to take action but what the israelis may be posturing for is trying to get some stronger international response to iran's nuclear program. host: and what has been the response from the state department? guest: it's been quichte they're getting for this report to be released. i have not heard the latest response to it. i think the white house spokesman yesterday addressed it and again, basically said he didn't want to preemption what the -- preempt what the report said. the western diplomats in vienna told me these three key points are what's going to be in this report. host: what has iran's response within? guest: they dismissed this. they've been saber rattling saying any attempt to take action against iran will result in their taking unspecified

reaction and that is a concern. host: and we heard that this morning the associated press reporting one of their military officers saying? u.s. forces go after our military officers, we'll go after theirs. guest: right. and they also have a terrorist capability in hezbolla which is known to operate around the world. we just saw the recent plot here in the u.s. with an officer. so they have networks that could conduct terrorist attacks against u.s. interests if there were some type of military action against iran. host: so let me just -- actually, let me ask you about russia and china because they came out yesterday in response to this report. what did they say? guest: they are trying to stall any type of action. in china's case, they have a long standing relationship with iran. they want iranian oil. so they have been among the leaders playing down the iranian nuclear threat. russia is a similar case.

the russians sold the -- there's report just this week that one of the key elements for supporting this iranian nuclear program was a russian scientist who somehow helped the iranians with critical elements of developing a nuclear when. host: and so there's some evidence then that there were foreign scientists that helped out? guest: yes. host: what is the u.n. atomic watchdog and why is it that they can find out this information? guest: the international atomic agency is based in vienna and they are well-known for the initial atoms for peace program where they protoed the -- promoted the use of electrical power generating. it has been misused by north korea for sure and iran to get nuclear technology under the guise of nuclear program and tush excite a weapons program.

in recent years, they have kind of been on the -- on the spot for trying to control some of these nuclear weapons programs that are out there and they've had a much more watchdog approach. u.s. has been kind of working with them, supplying them with intelligence and helping them find out the information about these programs. host: do they have access to iran? do they get into the country? guest: they do inspections periodically to declare facilities and a lot of their work is based on that. they have conversations with iranians. the iranians for the post part have stonewalled heavily anything related to their nuclear program and that's been reflected in iaea reports going back several months where the iranians say we have no nuclear weapons work and yet there are kess about these detonators and about this design information and about this computer modeling. host: here's an e-mail from --

sorry, tweet from florida, gordon. is there anything to the story that the u.s. and u.k. working on an attack plan on iran nuclear facility? guest: that's been very much denied. groirns never know what you know, but i remember reporting several weeks ago that there was a meeting inside the joint chiefs tank, a secret meeting room in the pentagon where the chairman of the joint chiefs was telling the other chiefs we're not going to do something. i don't know what they were not going to do, but my sense is that the military clearly is not in a position to begin another conflict in the middle east, especially when we're strapped financially and winding down the wars in virginia tech and afghanistan. -- iraq and afghanistan. host: west plains, nevada. republican go. ahead. caller: hi, bill. i like your writing. i read three of your books.

the only thing -- [inaudible] guest: they do not have a long range missile capable of reaching the united states. all the intelligence assessments that they're working on it nauven the guise of developing a space launch capability. they have launched satellites and there is concern about that. that's why the administration is launching its european phase adaptive approach which is the bush administration light program on developing a european-based missile defense system specifically targeted at dealing with iran's missiles. they do have a lot of missiles. the mainstay on the the arraignan force is the medium range missile which is a range of about 620 miles which if you look at a map, shows that they

could hit most targets throughout the middle east and parts of europe.host: from twit. guest: that is a good question. the intelligence community is still suffering from that failure of -- related to iraq's w m d. part of the problem with underestimating that problem is that they were wrong on iraq, and now they are afraid to make risky assessments about it. i think that there is a real concern that the iranians have a declared nuclear program and many declared sites. it is a real danger that they are very close to developing nuclear weapons. this latest report will say, not just having a weapon, but build one small enough to put on the

one of their missiles. host: what section of the report is key to look get? guest: the way past reports have done it, first of all, they go through what they're inspectors have found, the status of known programs, and then they usually contain a section on the military implications for the aspects of the iranian nuclear program. in the past, it has been unanswered questions about the work that they have done and that the iranians refused to discuss with the iaea. host: the report is also suspected to include information about 04 and after 2003. why is that important? guest: it highlights the national intelligence estimates. they would it work in the past but they are not doing it now. anyone who can see a hand in

front of their face would know that that was wrong. that is the key thing, because there was this strong insistence by the u.s. intelligence community that we do not have much to worry about because they halted this nuclear-weapons work so long ago. host: you're on the air with bill gertz of the "washington times," bill. caller: i was in a taxi and the driver was from iran. i said, what you arabs all have about america? he pulled over and said to me, i am not an arab. i am a person. i realize there is more going on in this area than most people realize and understand. but my feeling is that the russians, who do have a lot of oil, really benefit from the instability in this area due to the price of the oil going up.

i think alike -- behind a lot of this problem there and ahmedinejad, when he says he wants to wipe israel off the map, we cannot let this guy get a mom. guest: russia is an oil-rich country and they are just beginning to start to get the oil out of the ground. clearly under the pugin administration, we see -- put in administration, we see dead by nine direction of russia. pittston has stated he wants to restore the old soviet -- putin has stated he wants to restore the old soviet union. the bottom line is, that is where the oil is. we are heavily dependent on oil, as is china and the rest of asia. it is the central focus of our

strategic interests. host: denver, colorado, tony, your next. caller: my question is more strategic in nature. for 40 or 50 years we've operated under mutually assured destruction between superpowers. it was up to us to keep the world say. now with all the small countries, with their hands on nuclear knowledge and power, we cannot invade or bombed every single one of them. is it time for a new policy, may be self assured destruction, where the united states takes the position that, to not waste your time and resources on building nuclear weapons. if you ever use them anywhere, any how, against anyone, it spells the end for you. maybe as self assured destruction. i realize it sounds extreme, but

no more extreme than mutually assured destruction. maybe we need a new paradigm to deal with new weapons -- nuclear weapons in the world today. guest: it is clear that states like iran will not be deterred light during the cold war, when there was a balance of strategic power between the soviet union and the united states and we each have our allies. i agree that there needs to be a shift. you really cannot confront a lot of today's threats in iran or north korea, the proliferation, with conventional military force. it is more of a shadow war, related to intelligence and seal team 6 operations, were you take out people. it is also in the cyber realm. this is clearly the direction. will we be able to put chips

into nuclear weapons to trigger them so that they will not work? and we can attack the command- and-control system for the nuclear for so that when they press the button, no missile takes off. i think that is a good direction. host: from twitter. guest: the so-called back techniques -- backpack nukes are possible but they require much more sophistication. the u.s. develop them and they were not really backpacks, there were steamer trunks sizes. the reports about the russians having some of their technical nuclear-weapons like that. so, it is possible to do that. but under a uranium-based

program, which are run is a believed to be doing, -- iran is believed to be doing, it is more difficult to downsize a nuclear device that can fit onto one missile. the backpack is a lot harder. it requires plutonium. host: a democratic call are in texas. caller: what is -- i am curious as to why over the years we have been informed that israel has some nuclear capability. but no one seems to mention that when we're talking about the other countries who are developing our has them. host: let's talk about that. guest: this is clearly been an issue raised in the middle east. just last week, israel test fired a ballistic missile believed to be a new version of the jericho missile.

they have ballistic missiles and nuclear arsenal is undeclared and covert. the numbers that i have heard are about 35 nuclear weapons, either aircraft or missiles deliverable. this has been an issue for the iranians in their drive for nuclear weapon. it has become a nationalistic issue. the problem is, how you disarm -- how do you disarm this? i think that saudi arabia, because of iran, will develop nuclear weapons or some program with pakistan. so the a look for proliferation is not good. but there needs to be a middle east effort to denuclearize the region. host: and pakistan is training 8000 additional people to

protect then nuclear arsenal which the united states believes to be vulnerable to extremists. guest: since the bin laden raid last may, tensions between the u.s. and pakistan have been pretty high. i think the big fear in pakistan is that the u.s., using its advanced special operations capabilities, what if there were crisis in pakistan that threaten those weapons conduct an operation to take them. it sounds like that pakistanis who supposedly have their weapons under control are seeking to enhance those controls. host: back to twitter here. guest: well, there is a whole argument to be made there. who should have them and who should not. it is a legacy of the cold war that we have them.

a number of states have them. it is more of an alarming situation when you have a regime like that in iran, which is the caller mentioned earlier, has threatened to wipe israel off the face of the earth and has these apocalyptic theocratic rulers, which certainly raises the bar in terms of concerns about who has them and who does not. host: i number of people on twitter want to know what is the threat to the united states. guest: it is to be enough to states and its allies in the region. you cannot think about the middle east without thinking about oil. everyone who gets into their car every day is reliant on oil coming from the region. you cannot discount that this is a major part, and unless we find alternative sources, we will be dependent for a while. host: pete is from michigan. caller: i just had a complex

question for you on the nuclear weapons in iran, from literature and information that i have seen in what i've researched. america has the capability of taking -- detecting nuclear radiation from a bomb from outer space. they can find tandy's machines to tell if it is just a nuclear -- they can find tandy's machines to tell if it is a bomb of -- capable of destroying millions. -- fine tune these machines to tell if it is a bomb capable of destroying millions. it seems that the true terrorists are you people, the americans on tv propagandizing and telling us full of all of this crud and lies about false

threats. if people would just go to info wars.com, they would get the truth. guest: we do not have a good capability to detect it. of recent example of that, u.s. intelligence community budget is about $50 billion a year. the energy department has an energy section which identifies nuclear programs around the world and detect any nuclear blast. we have seen two underground nuclear tests in north korea appeared in both cases, the u.s. intelligence committee was able -- was not able to quickly determine whether it was a nuclear blast or conventional blast. they feel confident, but the lack of speed with which our

intelligence was able to confirm those test was troubling to me. host: what is the evidence from the watchdog report that his nuclear capability is for military purposes? guest: my guess is that it is based on -- and i am just speculating -- the best intelligence is through electronic communications. by that i mean that we have the ability to get into foreign communications, even if they are extremely encrypted, and read those communications. all of the best intelligence breaks have come from communications intelligence. the alternative is from a human source that we do not know about. there have been a lot of defectors. we know that iranian opposition groups in the past have provided new details on the iranian nuclear program that the u.s.

intelligence community has. that is a question very hard to answer because they do not like to talk about it. host: do you think that information will be in the report that comes out wednesday? guest: know. it is it -- no. it is a good question because any reporter will ask how they know this. and it will say, they received it from a variety of sources, multiple foreign governments and our own research as well as conversations. and open source information, they are getting a lot of intelligence through open source. it can focus on what is being put out there and being able to match that up with what they know in secret and did some good intelligence. host: a couple of more phone calls for you. tim is a democrat. caller: my concern is that this

has been going on for over five years, and can you imagine what iran has been able to achieve in those five years, working on a nuclear program? i am reading a book by mike evans written in 2007, and he says a lot of things that mr. gertz mentioned in his conversations today. of course our economic problems in the united states are quite large concerns, but equally concerning his iran getting an nuclear bomb. their religious zealots have no concern about america other than to destroy us, unless we become

a muslim. host: we have to run on that last point. guest: clearly we do not have a good handle on where these facilities are. they have many underground nuclear facilities. there have been a number of reports from the official u.s. intelligence assessment of the program is that it has suffered setbacks. the program is centered around these large numbers of centrifuges, which spend up -- spin up a special gas to become the uranium. i am sure that there has been sabotage in their supply chain which has made it more difficult for them to develop the centrifuge cascade. host: jim is an independent. caller: talking about the iaea,

does israel belong to the iaea? guest: i am not sure about the answer to that. i will say yes because i think they have civilian reactors there which would be under the iaea inspection. but i do not think that the iaea has tried to call them out on their nuclear weapons program. host: and it will deliver its report on iran according to bill gertz wednesday night, vienna time. leaks on what will be in the report. you love -- you wrote last week on china sales. guest: it talks about how china has been selling iran large numbers of missiles, mainly cruise missiles, and last year built an entire missile factory

inside iran. this highlights what we talked about earlier, the chinese support from iran -- for iran. people like to think that china is not a nuclear armed communist dictatorship, but it is becoming the source. they found a number of documents in libya where chinese companies were getting ready to supply arms to of cut out the -- to gaddafi to keep him in power. host: you can find out more from the iaea website. bill gertz, thank you for talking to our viewers. in our last hour, we are going to be continuing with our military week. our topic will be the u.s. air force. coming up next, a round table on voter id laws. a news update from c-span radio.

>> here are some of the headlines. the u.s. supreme court hears arguments today on police use of gps device is to track suspects. the government argues that people have no expectation of privacy concerning their travel on public streets. a drug conspiracy convention was thrown out because police planted a gps device on the suspect's car. we planted our this rigid air this argument on friday. -- we plan to air this argument on friday. initiative 26 in mississippi declares that life begins at fertilization. if approved, it could prompt a supreme court challenge seeking to overturn roe v wade, the decision that established a legal right to abortion. greece's two main political parties working on a power-

sharing agreement with a loan being withheld until there is a deal. french president nicolas sarkozy says he can you cannot stand" benjamin netanyahu and called him a liar. he was overheard making the comment during a conversation with president obama at the g-20 summit last week. saros -- several journalists say that they heard the comment but dean did private under french media traditions. a french website reported the comment today. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio.

>> extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. [applause] and let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. >> he lost the 1964 presidential election to lyndon johnson, but barry goldwater's ideas and candor galvanized the conservative movement. the five-term senator from arizona is featured this week on the c-span series, "the contenders." from the goldwater institute in phoenix, live friday 8:00 p.m. eastern. >> seem more videos of the candidates. from recent events to the early as part of their campaign, read the latest comments from campaign reporters, from social media sites, and links to c-span is media partners in the early primary and caucus states. all let c-span.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: on the docket this

morning, our roundtable discussion on voter id laws. let me begin with hans von spakovsky from the heritage foundation. we're also joined by jon greenbaum, the legal director for the lawyers committee for civil rights under law. hans, let me start with you. what are these voter id laws? what is the goal behind them? guest: on number of states have passed these laws. the idea is to put a security in the voting place that is in many other areas of the country today. i had to show a federal aideed to get into the lobby of the c- span studios today. that is that kind of security that we need in the polling place. the voter id laws are intended -- intended to stop voter fraud, double voting, and

potential voting by illegal aliens and people who are not citizens. host: take a look at the map. the states in green have strict photo id laws. the one in yellow have the doh id laws. and in the states in great, no voter id law at all. laws without 30 state a voter id laws. seven states with strict laws. seven with just a federal id law. and in 16 with non-fatal ids. jon greenbaum, why are these not a good idea? guest: there is no problem here if you talk about the main justification behind these laws, butter impersonation fraud. the first thing that he mentioned. there are hardly any instances of voter impersonation fraud, no more than a handful.

and a last two years -- host: where does that come from? guest: it comes from people looking at what the justice department has done and asking questions of state and local prosecutors. we only get a handful of instances. meanwhile, at these laws disenfranchise many people. studies have shown it anywhere from at the low-end, even the lowest in steady, more than 1% all the way to 15%. even at 1%, a national requirement would disenfranchise 20 million people. guest: talk about mississippi where they are voting about voter id. anyone in doubt about that can pull up the case, a lawsuit that was one of the voting rights act in 2007 by the justice department. the defendant in that case was

convicted of all kinds of violations of the voting rights act, discrimination, and there was testimony in that case cited in the court decision by a former deputy sheriff about witnessing the defendant outside a polling place telling a young black woman that she should go in and vote and use any name, no one would question her about it, because mississippi has no voter id law. host: a former congressman wrote this. if you doubt it exists, i do not. i have heard them brag about it. i am confident that it is changed a few close election

results. this comes from someone who used to fight against these voter id laws but now believes they need to be in place. guest: again, the evidence is not out there. if you look at the case that he cited, you do not have any documents about voter impersonation. on top of that, mr. brown was part of the election apparatus. most of the time we use the voter fraud is when there are people on the inside that are involved. it is not individual voters going out and saying, i will change the result of an election. if you think about it, what would you have to do to affect an election by a voter impersonation? you would have to how a large number of people, have them go down to the polls, but be willing to engage in fraud, but

on behalf of other people, and at the polls have them vote before the actual voter comes in. and you have a situation where the poll workers would not know who the voter was. so if you think about it, that is a pretty inefficient way to commit fraud in the election. i do not want that conversation to focus on this photograph the laws. there are lots of other things that we can do to modernize the process and some of the other laws that make it difficult for people to vote, like the law that float -- that florida just passed. among other things, i it requires voter registration groups to turn in registrations within two days after they have gotten a form from the voter. in practical terms, it makes it impossible to conduct of voter registration fraud. the league of women voters said

that they would get out of the voter registration business. also, it limits early voting. one of the things that happened in 2008 is that people went out and voted early in florida, particularly african-americans. on the sunday before the election, there were a 11% of the electorate but or 30% of the voters who voted early that sunday. now they have taken away early voting on that sunday before the election. counties do not even have the discretion. host: in your reaction? guest: there are some problems with what he just said. the election officials around the country had a huge problem with third party organizations, including acorn, holding on to completed voter registration forms, sometimes for months, and

turning them in at the last moment before the registration deadline, or after the deadline had passed, which disenfranchises people who thought that there were registered. they're asking the organizations to turn in completed forms so that the people will get registered. host: jon greenbaum. guest: florida had at 10-day rule before. if a voter registration group held on to a form for 20 days, they would get in trouble. it allows public assistance groups that conduct voter registration five days. some people do not want third party registration in florida. host: you are wearing an arlington sticker. guest: in virginia, they have

stayed level races -- state level races in odd numbered years. the state senate, the house delegates, local officers like the sheriff, the school board, and virginia is one of those states that has a lot of elections in what people consider an offside call you. host: let me go back to voter id laws and your group's efforts. a lot of these books go -- laws go back five years. what you tell people to do to get around these laws or go with them? guest: we run a program called the election protection. it is nonpartisan designed to help voters navigate election process. we use a legal volunteers, lawyers and paralegals and law students, to help in the

process. we provide legal support. we work with groups on the ground, national groups like the in dave soleil cp, as dick navigate the system. sort of id -- like the naacp, on how to navigate the system. if you go to our website, it has resources, " we call the map of shame, where the voter suppression laws have been passed, or have been proposed, and we provide information to people has to go about -- as to how to go about voting if you have these laws in your state. host: there is a letter to the secretary of state requested. will they be successful on this? guest: hopefully they will in some states.

in some states, it is too late. but there are a minority of states that have these laws. we would like it to stop here. hopefully this letter will be one piece in terms of making the case why these laws are poor laws. one thing i want to mention -- it is not a purely partisan issue. there are republicans out there, notably ohio's secretary of state who have come out against it. host: hans von spakovsky, what about the efforts to stop these laws? guest: i almost want to laugh at claiming this is a voter suppression. the constituents of these democratic congressman do not agree. if you look at the rasmussen polling, voters across the board, large majorities also

poured voter id. and as for voter suppression, look -- voter id laws have been in place in georgia and indiana for five years. they had numerous local elections and a presidential election. for five years, they have been convicted -- you have been predicting that this will depress the turnout of african- american voters and democratic voters. look at the actual turn out after the loss went into state. it did not depress the turnout of african-american tree in georgia, the 2010 election, the number of registered african- american voting was up seven percentage points from 2006 when there was no voter id law in effect. they have not had any problems. his organization sued in federal court and their cases were thrown out. in both cases, the judge made a

point of saying that the plaintiffs had claimed there were hundreds of thousands of people in each state that did not have fuddle idea and would not be able to vote. they could not produce a single witness in either case it was -- who did not have a photo id or who cannot easily get one. they are providing free photo ids for those who do not have them. host: joanne is a republican in long island. the head. -- go ahead. caller: i have a friend whose mother lived with them. when she died five years ago, my son continue to receive absentee ballots. my friend called the first year that she received it. they said, it just ripped it up. then she called three more times, and got the same thing.

she just gave up. i am wondering if that is more of and administrative problem, or with any of the discussions today, with that cover something like that? guest: clearly this is a administration problem. this is a great example of a situation where we're talking about something that may be done incorrectly, but it is not the voter. it is not your friend. your friend is trying to do the right thing. that is what citizens and most situations do. is the election officials not doing their job in terms of issuing absentee ballots anymore. host: would you disagree with that? guest: no, i agree. absentee ballot fraud is unfortunately a problem in this country. there have been a lot of cases

of that kind of fraud. what is going on in the york is that many states passed a law that is a permanent absentee ballot. that is a bad idea. once you sign up to get an absentee ballot, they send it to you every election without request. that could lead to situations like we are talking about. if you need an absentee ballot, of course you ought to get one. but you should have to request one be sent to you. that is the way it should be done in the states. host: william, a democrat in georgia. caller the person is denied his right to vote, and he is a citizen of this country, should he pay income tax or should he revolt and say i want all my money back? guest: no one in georgia is being denied their right to vote. as i said, the law has been in

place for five years. they have not had any problems with it. turnout has gone up for african- americans and every election since the voter id went into effect. that is not an issue in this state. guest: i will not say that people should not pay their taxes. but your question raises a good point. if all of these could means in government of finding people and identifying them, why don't we come up with a system of bowdoin -- of voting that automatically registers people who government knows as a citizen? that would dramatically increase the number of people registered to vote. does not make sense that in the 21st century, we are using a 19th century voting system that puts the onus on voters to go out and register to vote. why not with all the government information that it has on us, use it as a way of getting more

people on the roles and more people voting? caller: i think in this day of age, this is ridiculous. putting the onus on the voters? if he wants to vote, let him go do it. these gimmicks, why is government acted to -- have to do everything for you? can you not see why it the 2010 election was the way it was? they're like 70% of the people here in ohio that one voter id. even if it is just two people ripping the system, that will help out. if people cannot afford an id, and why don't the democrats get together and ply as one question -- and by us one?

host: tony, an independent from misery -- from missouri. caller: i worked for the obama campaign in 2008. a lot of people are trying to make sure the democrats and independents get the vote. you keep working as hard as you can to keep stealing those rights and we will keep working as hard as we can to keep them. host: before you go, what you doing on voter id? caller: i do not think missouri has of voter id law. host:, not according to this charge. guest: they have are referendum on the ballot that would amend the constitution to allow photo id. this idea that the whole purpose of this is to keep democrats from voting is simply untrue. indiana after its law had a huge

increase in democratic turnout in the 2008 election and in the 2010 election, more african- americans voting who vote 95% democratic, more voting in 2010 than in the 2008 election, a banner year for african-american turnout. it is just not true. guest: first of all, the reason why missouri does not have of fuddle id law is that they actually passed one, but it was found unconstitutional under the state constitution by the missouri supreme court. he keeps talking about what has happened in georgia. just because voter turnout increases does not mean that voter id is not having an effect. if you look at the 2008 election and compared to the 2004 election, black turnout went up slightly, but you had an african-american or running from

a major political party and hopefully was going to be elected president. light turn up -- white turnout actually went down. does it mean that it prevented white voters from voting? not necessarily. in fact, it is quite possible that in georgia, the number of voters would have been greater had there not been an id law. and the real reason why the numbers in georgia have gone up, georgia allow for early voting. over half of the voters who voted in the 2008 election in georgia voted either early or by absentee. and that was not true in 2004 when they do not have those laws. host: you are shaking your head but i have got a lot more phone calls. a democrat in new york.

caller: i am with jon greenbaum. anything that goes on has to be with the workers. you have to get the people to come out to get them to vote. the workers are there like in 2000 -- 2006, when bush told florida, who was counting the vote? the workers freed the frog is clearly on the workers. host: hans von spakovsky. guest: early voting is a relatively new phenomenon in the last few years. several studies have looked it early voting, and american university, not exactly a partisan place, they have concluded that early voting does not increase turnout. all it does is make it more convenient for people to vote who are going to vote any way.

the idea that somehow this will hurt turnout if suddenly there are only 13 days to vote before election rather than 15 days, it is just not supported by the data. i talk about turnout in georgia because for years, groups like his were predicting turnout would to down in of the letter id law went into effect. that did that happen. that is one other reason why the voter id laws are in effect today. host: an independent into a coma. caller: -- in tacoma. caller: recently advocates for voter id have been comparing the jury pool data to voting records. as proof of system is required to serve on a jury in washington

state, many in the jury pool had been removed from jury duty when they are screened for citizenship. you compare those names to voter data, and it has found in some of the small rural counties, up to 50 people remove from jury pools had in fact voted in previous elections. i thought that was interesting data. i think these people that say no one is out there voting illegally are incorrect. i'm wondering, are any other states comparing jury pool data to voting record? host: jon greenbaum. guest: what they have done in washington state, comparing the jury pool to the voting record, that is a way for you might be able to find some non-citizens who have voted.

that is a much better way of going about it as opposed to having a a lot that requires documentation of citizenship in order to register to vote. so there have been places that have done this -- arizona is one. they have found a handful of voters who fell into that category. that is a legitimate way for election officials and law enforcement officials to find instances of people who should not be voting. host: more information from the national conference of state legislators about strict photo id laws. there are seven states with strict laws. voters must show of voter id -- a federal idea, or both of provisional ballot, only counted

if the voter returns within seven days to show the federal id. voters unable to show photo id are still allowed devoted thicken meet certain other criteria in other states. this go to a republican in south carolina. caller: i had a beef with the gentleman trying to use the scare tactics here that no one has the right to vote. in south carolina here, we are a primary state coming up. let the people do what they are supposed to do and be registered and capito ids and do not leave it up to the government. host: jon greenbaum, talking to you. guest: south carolina has a putt

leidy's locked up in front of the department of justice for review -- a photo id law up in front of the department of justice for review. we know that they're going to be some voters, the exact number nobody knows, but if it is at least 1%, that is enough to turn the election and affect a lot of people. i want to go back quickly to the georgia case hans von spakovsky spakovsky mentioned. first, the law that georgia passed got struck down. they did not allow for a free id. he made the point before that they cannot bring forward any witnesses to do not have the added. in fact, we had several witnesses. a number could not testify at trial because they were not close to the courthouse. they were in nursing homes and they were elderly but they submitted affidavits.

we did have someone testify at trial that they did not have an id. guest: that is not what the judge said in a court decision. anyone who reads the court decision will see that is not true. i want to go back to the early call our, registering and not voting. there was a gao report that said that in just one united states district court area, at least 3% of the people called for jury duty, they were not u.s. citizens. there are some states that have had the clerks of court notified local election officials about this. but frankly not enough states are doing that. that is something that ought to be done to clean up the voter registration rolls and get non- citizens off of them. host: scott is a democrat from florida.

caller: in florida, we know that they have had problems with voters. florida currently has a voter id law, but the new law requires that people not be able to vote as early as they was before. i was wondering the purpose of passing such legislation, and it would seem to me that instead of people being encouraged to vote, they are discouraging people the vote. guest: i would not agree. i will tell you that election officials will tell you is extremely expensive to do early voting. it makes it harder for us to have the kind of transparent elections that we should have when the parties have poll

watchers at all the polling places. it is difficult to get enough poll watchers for both parties to cover a lengthy period before the election. others will tell you, they do not think that early voting is a good idea. voters do not have the same information. if something happens two days before election day, some kind of information comes out that people should have known, early voters, is too late for them to change their ballot and make a different choice. if we all go in on election day, we go in with the same information. that makes for better choice on election day. host: jon greenbaum, i will let you respond but i want to go to this call are in illinois. caller it must be terrible for hans von spakovsky to change

something that is never going to change. i was in law enforcement in the 1960's and california. we used to arrest mexican balance sherrill's -- nationals and send them back over the border. but there were so many, we release them out of the jail. that is when the explosions started. prior to that, my mother had married a mexican national. i saw just like my brothers did that there were mexicans everywhere, myself included, but i am an american. he is trying to stop something that he created in big business and agriculture. all the rest of those states, give it up. things will change whether you like it or not. the demographics of this country has changed and will change. if you do not play nice, we might not let you stay. please comment on that. you can do your voter id laws but you should stop it years ago.

host: first, jon greenbaum. guest: if you look that states that allow expanded early voting for the first time, and you see -- florida was not the first time, but it was used more often in florida -- you see how many people voted. it completely defies the idea that early voting does not affect voter turnout. simple logic would tell you that often -- offer people a number of days in -- as opposed to one day, more people will vote. that is what in effect happened. if a county jurisdiction wants to have early voting on a sunday before the election, it makes no sense whatsoever -- i do not know what new news comes out in the last few days, that should not be a reason for preventing early voting.

now there should be the interest of the democratic or republican parties. -- not there should the interest of the democratic republican party is. if they want to vote, let them go ahead and do it. guest: i am not sure what the caller was blaming me for. i do not think i am responsible for the fact that we have almost 11 million illegal immigrants in the united states. i am the son of immigrants. i'm a first generation american and i very much believe in illegal immigration -- in legal immigration. we need to control our borders and prevent people here illegally from enjoying the benefits of citizen. they should not be able to register and vote and get away with that. host: this go to barbara in georgia.

caller: they pay these union people to go in and be the 99% and cause trouble. they can pay them to go and vote illegally, like my sister was in north carolina with my cousin, she was waiting on him, and they asked her, are you a democrat or republican? she said that she was a democrat, and they said go in and vote. she said she was from georgia. she said, yet she's -- yet can. don't tell me they do not try to change election results. guest: if your relative had tried to vote, her name was not on the registration list. she would not have been able the vote. if anyone engages in both buying, that will not be affected by government-issued cuddle id law. it is illegal and should be prosecuted in has been where it

is found. but of photo id law will not change that. host: georgia. caller: i believe the caller but for less. early voting is a convenience for the voter. they have the information that they need to cast their vote. if this is not suppression, i do not know what it is. and i have a question. why you're trying to suppose -- suppress college votes? guest: no one is trying to suppress the vote of college students. they can vote where they are residents, either in their home states or if they intend to make the state where they are going to college their residence, they can register and vote there and they should be able to. in georgia, where this caller is from, students who have a student i.d. issued by did georgia college university system are able to use that id

to vote. there's been no attempt in georgia to keep students from voting. host: maryland, you are on the air. caller: early voting is a waste of funds. the second point, 4 ied, i say yes. you need an id to buy cigarettes or liquor. why not to vote? most require some type of national id. host: he mentioned it was a waste of money. he has said it is expensive. can you talk about that? guest: most will tell you that they like early voting. it takes the pressure off of election day. you know all of those problems that we saw in ohio in 2004? my organization and others filed a lawsuit against ohio

regarding problems in the administration system. it was not administered in a way that was constitutional. they were able to settle the case. in 2008, one of the things that made a huge difference in terms of why there were fewer problems on election day, fewer people voting on election day. it put a lot less stress on the system. we did not have as many instances of people standing in line for eight hours because there were not enough people working at the pole to deal with a high turnout. if you polled election officials, they would be in favor of doing early voting because it puts less stress on them. if you want to talk about cost, states have to offer free id because otherwise it is a poll tax.

wisconsin, the government all agency that tries to figure out how much a particular law calls, says that that voter id law's estimated cost of $5 million -- this is a state where there is a big issue in terms of what this budget is. to spend $5 million on a government-issued photo id law seems a poor decision from a financial perspective. host: hans von spakovsky, senior legal fellow for heritage foundation, and jon greenbaum, they are our guests. the topic is voter id laws in states. before we began the discussion with viewers, you so that your old sparring partners produce to work together at the justice department. did you disagree that the justice department as well? guest: we probably did. i was an attorney in the voting

section of there. hans came there around 2001. around 2003, he moved to the front office of the civil-rights division. he reviewed the voting section issues. yes, i can identify some specific things that i will not talk about whether they were disagreement. and i left at the end of 2003. guest: i was a career attorney at the justice the firm and became counsel to the assistant attorney general for civil rights. host: california, go ahead. caller: why is this such a problem for these people to get id? when any well there are medicare, they have no problem

getting an id. the next thing, we have things like a cornyn all this kind of stuff. it is the same people every time. we know that cheating is going on. who is complaining about it? host: jon greenbaum on getting an idt to anything. guest: the elderly students and poor people, they do not have idea and they do not need an id in terms of their daily lives in. about half the african-american nelson in milwaukee area did not have a driver's license. these are people who don't have cars, who don't need an id terms of their daily living. the other point i would make is that voting is a fundamental

right that is different than buying liquor at the liquor store, it is different than getting on a plane. you can get on a plane without a government-issued photo id. it is a fundamental right and need to protect that right as opposed -- we need to do things that enhance that right in the system like allowing for automatic registration, like when somebody moves, having their registration move with them and like allowed for things like being able to vote on election day. one thing i don't understand and the states that have passed these government-issued federal id laws, is why don't they allow people to vote on election day who have not registered before? one thing that breaks my heart -- we run this hot line -- this hot line -- every year, we have people call in before the

election who want to vote and want to know about voting and their state does not allow force into registration. we have to tell them they cannot vote in this election. it is heartbreaking to hear that. why not allow people to register and vote on election day? host: when you look at this map, the yellow and green states who have strict photo id laws as well as a regular photo id law, do they contained exceptions? guest: , they certainly do. there are exceptions in some states for people who are disabled, physically and mentally, all law that was passed in missouri that john talked about earlier had an exception for anyone born before 1941. there are exceptions built into it and there are safeguards put in that allow people even if they don't have an idea to vote in a provisional ballot. in indiana, they have 10 days to

come in and get an id. we are the only western democracy that does not require an id to vote. even mexico which has a much larger population in poverty than the united states requires a photo id. many people credit the implementation of that in the 1990's with why the first opposition candidate was elected after 60 years. they had that happen smoothly with any of the kind of problems that john and others predict we will have in the united states. host: me go to a tweet -- guest: i'm not aware of any of voter sampling that has been done. people that see or hear about the voter fraud should contact their local district attorney.

i am not aware of any polling that has been done. guest: no, and that is a problem is that it is hard to detect. there is a problem going on right now in indiana because they have discovered that many of the signatures on petitions that put barack obama on the ballot were forgeries. election officials did not find that. a student doing research found that. that points out the difficulty of finding some of the kind of fraud that occurrs in the election process. host: go to an independent scholar. caller: thank you for taking my call and thank you for the gentleman who are giving divergent perspectives. [laughter] that is the beauty of cspan. i love it. in my career prior to retirement, i have the honor and pleasure of serving as a public educator.

the last 18 years, i served as a school counselor and i saw time after time, particularly in the more rural counties that i worked in that as was alluded to earlier, poor people do not have vehicles. poor people do not have driver's licenses. poor people only have to have social security cards and/or a birth certificate to get there and needed support. that is my perspective. this is another means to move the separation from the haves and have-nots. host: let's get a response guest: i disagree with that. we could talk about indiana. they have put it all kinds of special education efforts and they put in an effort to do things -- georgia had a mobile

van whose purpose was to go to more remote areas of the country to help people get id's. they have a long education program and spent a lot of money to sign of individuals who did not have id's and the result was, again, that there really did not have a problem if you look at most states, you will find that when you compare the number of individuals who have driver's licenses and non-photo id's you compare that to the majority of registered voters, there are more drivers license issues than registered voters. host: highpoint, n.c. -- caller: i don't understand why anyone would have a problem having a photo id. it is well known that we have a lot of illegal aliens and the country. they should not have the right to vote.

host: what is your take on that? guest: there is not a lot of instances of people who are undocumented trying to votes. the reason why is the penalties are harsh. it is not a very good judgment to take a risk of boating and being prosecuted and then spending years in jail over it. most people who are undocumented are looking for ways to stay on the down low, not in terms of getting out there. i want to respond to the prior call. patrick, i appreciate you calling because you are giving the boys out there to those people who don't have a voice. it is very much appreciated. you can talk about statistics all you want and you are talking about your own experience of being out there in rural west virginia.

let's talk about the georgia mobile van. the concept of the state of georgia which goes on for hundreds of thousands of miles, having won mobile van would be laughable if it was not so pathetic and sad in terms of not really making a genuine effort to go out there and identify people who need id and provide that for them host: a republican in memphis, tennessee, good morning. caller: i find this whole thing that mr. greenbaum is saying is laughable. we know for a fact that he does too. it is dishonest for it we are a country of communities that can be communicated all over. it is easy to be understand and talk and understand below. it is easy to be able to find a way of getting id and a way of

pre-registered so you would not have to worry about illegal voting. we know for a fact and he does, too, to sit there and deny the fact that there is illegal voting cis just this honest. host: let me give you a chance to respond quickly. guest: i am not saying it never happens. it very rarely happens. if you look at the law enforcement record, you see that it barely happens. in terms of id, for the majority of people, they have the id's already but for those who don't, it is a major imposition. host: independent, white marsh, maryland for . caller: i take offense to the young man not having an id being able to vote for it you named african-americans and as an african-american i take offense to that.

and the young african-american that cannot get an idea does not deserve the right to vote. we worked too hard to get the right to vote and everyone should take advantage and play by the rules. if they're giving away a check it needs to have an id to cash that check, ever what would be running and would have their id's in hand. please stop using african- americans or any minority as an excuse to further the calls you have because it is really hurting us. if you're talking about a small minority, let's only speak of those exceptions and stop using everybody else. it is appalling. guest: somebody else who agrees with what the caller just said is senator harold metz. he is an african american senate democrat in rhode island. he was the chief sponsor of the

rhode island voter i.d.. he had a great article and a local rhode island paper where he said the same thing. he said -- he got upset at people making claims that african-americans could not comply with this rule i would not be able to get an id and he sponsored the bill because he said he had seen voter fraud and he believes that a voter i.d. is necessary and the african- american community can certainly comply with that requirement like everybody else host: ann arbor, mich., democratic col. go ahead caller: voter i.d. is a waste of tax dollars. it wastes a huge amount of time in the courts and wastes a huge amount of paper. if mexicans have a voter i.d. and mexico, that is a problem for people coming across the border. they should be able to put them in the system. i think it is a waste of time.

it is something to gripe about and do away with the democratic vote. guest: i disagree completely. caller: i think having voter i.d. laws is not discriminatory against everybody. every state in the union will provide you with not a driver's license but a state-issued id between $5 and $15. i am unemployed but i have a state id. i can find that. i believe that having an informed electorate is just as important as having a legal voting electorate. i think people should have to pass the u.s. citizenship test in order to be able to vote.

this is ridiculous how to inform people are allowed to make decisions that affect the way the entire country is run. i don't think anyone should be told they are to black or mexican or pour to vote but some people should be told that you are too uninformed to vote. host: here is a tweet -- guest: again, the instances of fraud are few. the cost in terms of the individuals who don't have the id to get it and the cost of the state to administer it is extensive to do with the problem that is nonexistent. i don't want to just talk about voter i.d. laws alone for it we have to look at the election as a whole and look at ways to make the election system better and more accessible. host: do we have any data on how much it costs on average to get

a photo i.d. and how much it costs the state? guest: depending on the state, -- there are two pieces of it -- in some cases, you have to get a document, provide documents to get a photo i.d. so it might require a birth certificate. that could be $10-$75. on top of that, the cost of the deas themselves a ve thevary between states. they have been as low as $5 and as high as $50 and the time that is associated with it. there's a very good store regarding a woman from tennessee in her 90s. tennessee passed the federal id law and she has to -- she brought everything with her including her birth certificate down to the motor vehicle office and took her three times because the birth certificate had her

name prior to marriage. she had to go back and look for a marriage certificate. it is putting these people who have been in this country their entire lives, who have done their job as citizens and in their later years, making them sit for hours at a motor vehicle office in order to register to vote host: let's get in one last quick phone call from illinois. caller: in the election with george bush and al gore, in hancock county, people had to buy new voting machines. in hancock county, we had to buy new voting machines and the cost is $800,000 which the federal government paid for half. one year later, they made us by handicapped voting machines which the county board voted down. we have never had anybody use

them and they cost us $400,000. host: can you get your point? caller: i don't see where there is any kind of -- that people don't have the right. the only thing i am afraid of is that these new machines can be packed into an programmed to put out the vote they want. they are all the same and computerized. host: i will ask for final thoughts from both of you if you can make it quick. guest: voter i.d. is a common- sense requirement. it is one that the majority of the american people believe in and think it is the correct thing to do. the large majority, the courts agree and the turnout in elections in states that have voter i.d. show that the claims that people cannot go to have turned out to be untrue. guest: voter i.d. does not serve a useful purpose in terms of

stopping boater fraud. voter i.d. is expensive and if we are looking to improve the system, there are better ways of doing it, things like expanding early voting and using the information the government has already to get people registered to vote as opposed to looking at these laws. host: thank you both for talking to our viewers. up next, we continue military weakened our topic will be the u.s. air force. first a news update from cspan radio. >> hear some of the headlines -- attorney general eric holder says an investigation of arms traffickers called operation fast and furious was flawed in concept and execution. it never should have happened and must never happen again. facing tough questioning in about one hour by senate republicans, the attorney general said that he wants to know why and how firearms that should have been under

surveillance could wind up in the hands of mexican drug cartels. that hearing will be live at 10:00 after "washington journal" on cspan radio and television. president obama travels to philadelphia today to tour a classroom and meet with students and teachers at a head start center. he will have remarks and is expected to discuss ways the white house is using executive action to get around congress. republicans have opposed his jobs agenda. pennsylvania has 20 electoral votes and is expected to be heavily contested by both the president and his republican challenger in the 2012 election. washington, d.c. police chief cathy lanier says the occupied d.c. protesters have become increasingly confrontational. she says her department will adjust tactics as needed to insure safety. she says that while earlier protests had been peaceful, demonstrators this past friday were aggressive and a lot of people from leaving the city's

convention center. those of some of the latest headlines on cspan radio. >> extremism and the defense of liberty is no vice. [applause] let me remind you also that moderation and a person of justice is no virtue. [applause] >> he lost the 1964 presidential election to lyndon johnson but barry goldwater's ideas and candor galvanize the conservative movement. the five-term senator from arizona is featured this week on the cspan series "the contender." it is live friday at 8:00 p.m. eastern from the goldwater center. >> "washington journal:" continues. host: yesterday we began our military series with the marines, talking with lieutenant

general richard mills and tomorrow we will be live from arlington national cemetery to learn about its operations and reform efforts. on thursday, we will hear from a top coast guard official and friday, america by the numbers will focus on the demographics of a certain our nation's armed forces. today's topic is the role and mission of the u.s. air force. what are welcoming -- we are welcoming major general michael holmes. what do you do? guest: i focus on the strategic planning part of the deal. our job is to look into the future and take a look at what the air force would look like 20 years from now. and try to cast back into the present and figure out what to do and how we should spend our money and change the air force to make it ready to operate in that future environment. host: what will it look like 20 years from now? guest: we will be more modernized, we hope.

our equipment has gotten old last 20 years and we hope to put some more money into that and by the next generation of systems. we will still be based in great american airman better at doing the job around the world. we will still rely on those skills. host: what will your aircraft look like in 20 years? guest: we will have added a new tankers ,the kc-46. we will have brought the effort 35 -- the f-35 on but we will still be flying some of new versions. we will be deployed in new bomber, a long-range strike. more bomber. we will provide a lot of utilities like a global positioning, weather, and communications for the joint force. host: if you look at the 2012 budget, it is $119 billion. to reach the goals you just

outlined for yuri clyburn, what will your budget need to be -- to reach the goals you just outlined, what will your budget need to be? guest: 20 to have a moderate risk to do the things the country asks us to do at a moderate risk. because of the fiscal realities will face, we will have less money to do that. we plan what we think will be available and reworked to advocate for a strategy based approach to make the most of the money the country thinks they can spend in the air force. host: there was a story yesterday in the paper about f- 35 with the defense secretary of state leon panetta saying he is looking at a potential reduction to major weapons systems. he said it was considering cutting the purchases of the f- 35 strike fighter.

what does that mean? guest: we are dependent on it for the future and we believe there is no alternative. we understand the numbers will depend on how much they cost and how well the contractor does at delivering them. we will plan for a certain number or look at other options if we get less and we will be able to find a way to use the joint strike fighter as we acquire and the older systems we maintain to continue to do the job we are expected to do. do youhow many at-3'5s have and how many do expect to have? guest: we are in the early stages of the program. we have eight. we hope to acquire over 1500 of the airplane. across the joint force between the air force and marine version and navy version, the goal is for under 2500 of the joint strike fighters and international customers are expected to buy another 600.

the total program would be about six -- 3030 host: as the f-35 seen any combat? guest: not yet. we're looking to try normal pilots to fly and not just a test pilots. host: what has held back from combat? guest: the development program for any new weapon system takes a long time, longer than we would like and they cost more than we would like. it is because the technology and things you are building our new and have not been done before. the joint strike fighter introduces several new thing. it builds on the stealth technology we have used before. it integrates avionics and with has not been done before. it is a different electronic system on the airplane to communicate directly with each other and with other airplanes around it. software, costs, and development times always take longer than you think and developing new things takes longer. host: , it doesn't have-35 cost?

guest: if you average the cost across the program, it would be somewhere around $85 million each. if you add in the research and development costs, it would be more than that. host: many have heard about the debate about an alternative engine for the f-35. where does that stand? guest: that is a policy decision that would be made in congress by the department of defense. the program is to buy one engine right now. host: where does it stand in congress? guest: congress is marking up the budget for f y 2012 and the senate has taken steps to delay the program a little bit. the department is looking at options to do that. our goal is to buy airplanes that meet the requirements and that are ready to go and we will buy them when they are produced incapable of doing the mission. host: where talking with major

general james holmes. our focus this morning is on the u.s. air force and we have a separate line set aside from active and retired air force. you talked about what the air force would look like 20 years from now. how do drowns fit into the picture? guest: we call it remote piloted aircraft. the air force has dramatically expanded are remotely piloted aircraft over the last couple of years in order to provide what we call full motion video and intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance support and a joint force in the wars we are fighting for it we built a pretty quickly to fly and 58. it involves more than one aircraft. we're providing about 1200

hours per day. for the commanders to support their operation. we will continue to build up and provide 65 of those and see where the requirement texas from there. we are flying about 175 remotely piloted aircraft with most of those being in combat host: where? guest: in iraq and afghanistan and over other places where u.s. forces are operating. host: we read a lot in the papers about the secret drone attacks. we read that the cia is the one ordering them. to the orders come from the cia and then down to the air force? guest: the air force flies remotely powered aircraft in support of our traditional military for. this we are active in the places i talked about. i am not really ready to comment on what the other government organizations might be doing. host: are these all run by the

air force or does the cia have their own fleet of drones? guest: the air force has a fleet that flies with our conventional ground forces. host: is there a relationship between the cia and the air force? guest: the air force has developed aircraft and there are other government users that use the aircraft. host: the mq1 predator, there are 165 m mq9, there are 82, but global clock has 12. when you mq1b predator --the rq-4 costs us $37.6 million.

explain the costs. what goes into it? guest: the predator was our first generation of a remotely powered aircraft. it was great -- out that with sensors to see in close detail what is happening on the ground later, we armed with a small missile, the hellfire missile. the reaper is the next generation which is a bigger airplane. it has a larger engine and can carry a heavier payload. it can go longer distances to do things for the ground commander. the rq-4 is a longer range, are l2 system that does not provide the full motion video directly to ground commanders. it is more of a traditionall reconnaissance airplane to host: what is the future? guest: those three airplanes will continue to support ground

commanders and move into the future into other roles. we will see what the need and demand is out there for unmanned aircraft we are looking at all the areas they might be employed. we will go where the needs of the country take us. host: are these ever deployed over our country? guest: they are used for things like humanitarian relief after major storms. they can fly out and use their sensors to find out what is happening where communications or power is out. we make sure we do that sadly we work with the faa to make sure they're happy and comfortable with any operation we do. host: our first phone call is from retired air force in wisconsin. caller: it is fascinating what those remote control plans do.

i am wondering what kind of power plants that have? are they electric? are they turbine engines? guest: the mq-1 has a reciprocating engine like you would see on a smaller airplane or on a pleasure craft like a jet ski or snow mobilet. he mz-9 runs on jet fuel and is more sophisticated as and therq-4 uses a jet engine. host: arizona, chris, independent caller. caller: i am a retired navy commander, a naval aviator. one thing that is bothering me is the fact that we have a reduction in force structure and

both squadrons flown, battle groups, and the army manpower. is there going to be a corresponding reduction in missions assigned? if these are not in balance, i think you can agree we are going to get some people hurt if we have to have a conflict guest: with this first round of cuts, we have worked hard as a department across the joint services to apply strategy and make sure we can continue to do the missions across the military that our country asks us to do. we may not be able to do them in as many places at the same time. we will strive to make sure we can do the best we can with the money our country gives us. host: here is a tweed -- guest: we have forces that

operate in the air across the military. the air assets in the army and navy and marine corps fly in direct support of the mission of those services. the air force flies across the theater and has more of a theater perspective and is responsible for providing air superiority across the theater and being able to reach out and strike targets across the world, providing a global intelligence and surveillance and reconnaissance. they provide the air leg of our nuclear deterrent operation. there is some redundancy, we use here place for different focuses but we work together to get the joint force commanders objectives. host: every public and in north carolina, you are on the air. caller: i want to know about it will we get into any kind of thing like nasa and get that regenerated to boost the economy? i think that could really help. we could integrated into the

military. and the production of materials and go up there with drones and stuff. what is that possibility? guest: that is a great question. we like to think we are responsible for superiority and exporting that space environment. we're focused on the future but space systems are very expensive. part of our efforts to improve our acquisition process are focused on the things we need to operate in space. reduced budgets will cause us to continue to think of innovative things. we will focus on maintaining the capabilities we currently provide host: a reference to the defense secretary panetta and there are reports that he is looking at different aspects to

meet the $450 billion in cuts to the pentagon budget. one of them is looking at the work force of the military. he talked about cut across the army and marines but he did not mention the air force. this is the miami herald -- where will the job cuts come from? guest: the specific plan is the civilian jobs. at options that will bring us down to a set number. people have exceeded our retention goals and people want to stay and continue to work in the air force. as a look at budget cuts across the board, we will have to look at cuts and are active duty force and look at cuts in our reserve and guard force and look at cuts in our civilian force. we have an effort going on to see where there are inefficiencies and where we might reduce our civilian forces. host: what will that mean?

guest: we have about 335 active duty air man, about 75,000 reservists, 150,000 civilians. at the course gets smaller, it would like your airplanes, we will need fewer people to do the maintenance that is done by civilians and support operations. if we get smaller, we will need less of that support. host: what will the drawdown in iraq and afghanistan mean for those numbers? according to the u.s. air force, there are about 9000 at the 34 u.s. air force airmen in afghanistan and about 1910 in iraq. this comes in the u.s. air force. what is the reduction in the work force mean when you talk about drawdowns? guest: the air force went to war in the middle east when saddam hussein invaded kuwait more than

20 years ago. we have been there the whole time since then. when 500,000 troops invaded kuwait, the air force state. stayed. the air force was there on the second attack on kuwait and as a drawdown happens, we think the air force will get smaller but not proportionately to the reduction in ground forces. we are generally the first guys in and alaskas out that we expect we will remain -- maintain a presence. -- we are generally the first guys in and of the last guys out and we expect we will remain a presence. we will be present around the world particularly in the pacific to provide security and stability. host: when you think about 20 years from now and your budget, how will things be different? leon panetta also said yesterday he is looking at retirement and

health care benefits as well as ways to cut. how much does it cost the air force for retirement and health- care benefits? what does that do your budget 20 years from now? guest: personnel costs are a big part of our budget and secretary panetta said it is important to take a balanced approach to making defense cuts which means we cannot take a call from personnel or from readiness or all from structure or from modernization. we will have to spread that across. there are several groups studying potential changes to compensation with retirement being one part of that. only about 17% of military people serve 20 years and earned a retirement. it is spread across people who have served for at least 20 years and serve their country and picked up and move their country around the world and we still think it is a unique service that requires you make compensation. host: that is a big cost the

military. guest: we think the retirement benefit is appropriate. if you join the air force at age 18 and to serve for 20 years, you retire just under 40 and go into another career. officers would be in the mid- 40's. expenses in providing the benefit or expanding a lengthening life and the medical benefits are also a great part of what goes into the personal costs. host: robert is retired air force in chicopee, massachusetts. caller: since we've got the drones flying air to my submissions, how far away are we from flying air to air with drones. i think it would be a tremendous cost savings.

thank you for your comments. guest: thank you for the question. it is true that for combat employment of our remotely powered aircraft, it has been in error to brown moat which makes it aircraft dropping a weapon or shooting a rocket at a target on the ground. air-to-air combat has stayed a manned mission. the situation is so fluid and changes so fast that we rely on a person to be in the loop to decide before you pull the trigger whether you are shooting at the right target or not. that is a complex air to their environment. we're looking at new ways to improve our efficiency and become better at what we do. it requires a whole lot of judgment in air to air like

dropping bombs with troops in contact and that will continue to require a person in duluth. host: here is a to reach. a tweet -- guest: right now, we are building the aircraft to demand. we have the capability to turn our airplanes into drones that were used as targets and other functions. to be able to fully control the airplane, we need a person in the loop to do that. host: what is the biggest advantage between amanda aircraft f-35 and f-22 and unmanned. ? guest: the report and stay out there for a long time, beyond the entrance of a human pilot.

they can remain effective for a long period of time. for the manned aircraft, instead of being able to look for a sensor and where it is pointed on the ground, if i am in that airplane, i can turn and look left and right and look at the ground and other places. i can look and see what is happening 1 mile away by looking out the window, i can see the other aircraft out there. i can apply my judgment to that whole picture instead of just the information presented to me by censors. host: does that apply to civilian casualties? guest: we think is important to have a person in the loop when we are dropping bombs. the overwhelming majority of the bombs were dropped in the current conflict in iraq and afghanistan are dropped in coordination with ground commanders. they are dropped after a 9-line is delivered. that tells where the target is

and where the friendly forces are in if there are any restrictions if there might be civilians. we might need to avoid the public some the ground and the airport provides that feedback @ working together, we have been successful in avoiding casualties from the air. we work hard to continue to avoid them. host: retired air force, tulsa, okla., good morning. caller: i have two quick questions. i am trying to find out about the plan to change the [unintelligible] will there be a change for the military retirement system in the air force? guest: in congress, they are

examining bills to control tri- care costs and they're talking about the limiting enrollment in tri-care5 which may be the program you are involved in which offers the fewest co-pays for retirees. there's also talk about increasing the payment, the annual payment that retirees make to participate in the process. that will be up to congress to decide. secretary panetta and the air force leadership have said they think it is important that whatever we do with cuts to maintain our force within the budget, we need to keep faith with those who served and those who are serving now. i think that leadership is strongly oriented to protect your retirement benefits. host: republican in pittsburgh sent us this e-mail --

guest: i'm not exactly sure what we're talking about. our military resources in general remain under a military command structure that reports for the secretary of defense. we are partnering more and more with state. as a move forward in iraq and the hand of the mission at the end of this year, a state will take the lead in our mission in iraq. will work closely with state who is the lead agency for international affairs and relations in the united states government. i think our systems will remain under the control of the department of defense. host: even at a handoff? guest: yes perry keyhole host: arlington , va. ♪ caller: good morning. i want to thank you for the great cooperation between the polish air force and the american air force. we purchased the f-16 of some

of the blackhawks are manufactured in poland prat an extremely advanced facility. thank you for the cooperation. i come from an aviation family. [unintelligible] i have one idea about recruitment in america. and modern pentathlon was crucial in the 1970's and 1980's and it was a military sport sponsored by the u.s. military. there is a great facility out of san antonio, texas. military does not sponsor of this sport anymore. it would be a great idea in

spending -- instead of spending money on race cars to promote the sport in the future. guest: the polish military has a great tradition and the air force is expanding its cooperation with the polish air force as you indicated. my service in afghanistan i worked closely with a polish brigade that was deployed to afghanistan and made many great friends and comrades their part of the united states and poland will continue to work together to bring us together. i think general george patton was an elective medal winner in the pentathlon as a military officer. the military sponsors some international competition programs with world-class athletes that compete in the olympics sports, so far, we are meeting our retention goals in the air force and across the military services and we take a look at that recruiting budget, trying to spend enough to make sure we meet our retention goals

but not more than we need to spend to do that. it is a great idea and i will take a back and talk to my friends in the pentagon. host: here is a tweet -- question.t's a great the current wars are being fought against enemies that don't have air forces. united states air force killed there are forces in the first invasion of iraq. saddam had same had about 800 fighter bombers that were decimated on the ground. in the tenures in between the two airports, the air force covered the no-fly zone over iraq and prevented the iraqi air force from flying into places where we did not want them. in the early hours of iraqi freedom, the rest of the air force in iraq was destroyed.

in the early ohours of the afghan war, the afghan air force was destroyed. the last time an american soldier on the ground was attacked from the air was in 1951 over korea. we take that responsibility very seriously. as people adapt to the way the u.s. fights wars, we see people starting to spend their money on ideas we call anti-access and area denial strategies. anti-access is designed to keep the u.s. from entering a region to be able to project force there. area denial strategies are designed to keep u.s. forces from maneuvering in that area. to be able to operate in those high threat areas takes a joint strike fighter and the f-22. the air forces are not functional but there are other air force is growing and becoming more complex and capable. host: i want to show our viewers

what the joint chiefs of staff general martin dempsey said recently about the high-tech joint strike fighter. >> i am supportive without caveat of the development of the fifth generation fighter. i am concerned about whether we go forward in this and learn if we can afford all three. i am eager to learn more about that. i have great respect for general amiss' judgment. this creates some fiscal challenges for us. host: can you explain that a little bit? are talking about two separate things? guest: the f-35 and the f-22 are called fifth generation fighters. the f-35 is a joint project

being bought by the air force and marines and navy. they are by slightly different versions. the conventional take off and landing version is designed to operate off of six runways and the way the air force operates. the marines are pursuing a short-term take off. the navy is pursuing a carrier- based aircraft. there is some increased cost in buying three different versions. each services are evaluating what the requirement is. the navy has a continuing requirement to be able to fly fifth generation of fate carrier decks of a have to have a special version. the air force version is the furthest alon in the test program. it will be the least expensive

and the most efficient to operate of the three versions. host: i assume the air force stays committed to that request? guest: absolutely. host: what do you think will happen? who will not get their aircraft? guest: h service and the department of defense will have to decide -- each service and the department of defense will have to decide. within these current cuts called for services believe they can afford some number of airplanes. the number will depend on how much the cost and of being of the program. host: it may be that each branch gets its aircraft but the get less of what they requested? guest: that may be. host: when will that decision be made to? guest: those decisions will be made based on the performance of the program and the cuts that we deal with and the budget topline. host: are we talking about this year or next year? guest: probably not this year. there is a lot of turbulence

this year because we are still marking up the 2012 budget and we don't know exactly what we can spend next year. we will be on a continuing resolution for a while. the 2013 budget has a comprehensive review to look at our strategy before we commit to spending money in 2013. guys like me and all four services are planning on the budget without any rebel -- resolution on 2012 and 2013. we'll let the budget settle down and see what we can actually spent for defense and will have to make some decisions after that. host: adam is a retired air force member in jackson, michigan. caller: i would like to know if the drawn pilots -- drone pilots go through the traditional route. host: do they go through traditional training? guest: we have a mix.

graduates of our pilot training and they have flown other aircraft and the came to join the program. we did some experiments with taking guys straight out of our normal pilot training and putting them into remotely piloted aircraft programs. we have done some experiments also with a specialized program that trains people to fly only remotely piloted aircraft and that includes some time flying real airplanes to make sure they understand what it is like and they are familiar with that environment. it is less expensive and focus on flying the remotely piloted aircraft. host: we have heard of the strict criteria there is for those who actually fly air force aircraft. you have to have a certain height and vision. do those things apply to those that are flying remotely? guest: there still remains strict criteria for doing it.

you can relax some of that a little bit if you're not putting a person in the airplane. the height and weight and size restrictions are made so that you can fit into a cockpit. some of those are not as important when you are flying an airplane remotely. host: what about the intelligence criteria for flying? guest: we have been able to be very proactive. we have volunteers to fly the airplanes so we can be very selective on the people we bring in. a large percentage of our's come from the air force academy after a four-year education. the company reserve officer training corps at universities around the country and we use officer training school to bring people in who have completed college to make up the difference in numbers and we can fine-tune that every year. host: is there was this a big area in this country were on manned aircraft is being flown? are they all in one area of the

country? outt: we're spreading them a little bit. most of them were out in nevada original and we train crews there and we had a remote flying operation from there but we are spreading the mission and to other places. we now have training units in new mexico and spreading into the international guard for flying the aircraft and learning how to fly and what we call the remote split operation were the crews are using satellite communications to fly airplanes over iraq and afghanistan. host: ledger -- let's get your response to this headline -- guest: what i understand is that they're moving data from one computer system to another and using a mobile drive like a thumb drive and that got infected with a piece of software.

my understanding is that it never threatened the operation of the system and would never threatened the network because the systems are maintained separately it as a consequence of things that we all deal with across america as we learn how to maintain the integrity of our data and networks and keep them safe from the international creditors that prey on networks and from the commercial criminals that prey on our networks. host: we have a few minutes left as we continue military week here on "washington journal." we're focusing on the air force today. democratic caller next. caller: thank you for your service. what are some of the differences between the f-22 and the f-35? how they stack up against the f- 15 or 16?

guest: thank you for the question. the f-22 came earlier and it was focused primarily on the air-to- air combat environment. it has air to ground capabilities but it was designed to allow us to accomplish air superiority the way we think it should be done which is to fly over and airfields and they can fight -- and make him fight but prevent him from taking off. the f-22 can super crews which means it can fly faster than supersonic cruise without using afterburners. the avionics are integrated into the airplane where they talk to each other and make the pilot's job sample that has a reduced cross-section which has an advantage over surface to air threats. fighter makesike

some changes. the avionics are now integrated between multiple airplanes better so they can share information with each other and help the crews be more effective. if you compare the f-22 tot he f-15, the f-22 is far superior. we have found that if you pare toe advance with f-15's, gather it can make the f-15 superior to new threats. host: when and where did you fly the f-15? guest: i began in 1981 and i flew in tidewater, va. and on the open now in japan were my oldest daughter was born i also flew in new mexico where my son was born and back at langley and